The color of crime..

[brassmonkey]

Read and absorb this if you're in denial about reality.... Crime rates are increasing, and it's less safe every day to allow your kdis to go outside alone or to walk down the street late at night. I want a safe future for me and my children, and that's why we need to examine crime and it's root causes/players.



This is not a racist rant, but a call to tell these people, with no political correctness involved, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! CUT THE SHIT OUT, ALREADY AND BEHAVE YOURSELVES!!!

The term White Flight exists because of the real phenomenon that when minorities move into neighborhoods in numbers, the white families leave due to the increased crime rates, the rise in insurance costs and decrease in property values. My paternal grandmother had to move out of her house due to feeling unsafe as the demographic of her neighborhood changed and her plants started disappearing off of her porch, and my mother is seriously considering moving out of her home-the home I grew up in, due to the increase of crime in her neighborhood, largely due to homes going from owner-occupied to rentals with all that brings. Need I elaborate? It's Indianapolis! Both will be further out of the city, and it pisses me off!! Don't even try the, "You're a racist!" bullshit, because we are dealing with facts and statistics here, not feelings or opinions.

Yes, I talk about unpopular things-what good does not talking about it do? Raising a black son, myself, I do think about the image of the black race and what he's up against when he goes out into the world-an image created for him by his own race that commits much more violent crime than white people and only comprises about 13% of the population.

Bill Cosby had the guts to say it, but his speech evidently did little good, because the rates of black crime are still staggering and increasing every day.

The link

New Century Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization founded in 1994 to study immigration and race relations so as to better understand the consequences of America's increasing diversity. It sponsors publications and books, and holds occasional conferences.

Major Findings:

* Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.

Crime Rates

* Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
* When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
* Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
* The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

Interracial Crime

* Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
* Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
* Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
* Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.

Gangs

* Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
* Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.

Incarceration

* Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
* Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

[homebase]

I think a more objective opinion on your post would be my brother-in-law who is a Peurto Rican Parole Officer in NYC.

In my thinking, the statistical information offers only a black/white picture and building a case that leaves out too much of the total picture.

What would be a solution if this is an accurate, fair and the only reason for the criminal behavior and incarcerations of people of color?

An article I came across some time ago also talks about the rise in incarcerations:

Prison Labor: Who Stands to Profit in USA's Most Important Growth Industry?

Prison labor is poised to become one of America's most important growth industries. Over 3/4 of a million incarcerated are currently employed, more than any Fortune 500 business. Is this a benefit to the imprisoned, or just another opportunity for greed?
If you still believe that prisoners are only in the business of producing license plates, guess again. Private corporations are making a killing employing prisoners across the US. They are hiring the incarcerated to manufacture everything from designer jeans to computer circuit boards.

Inmate Ayana Cole always dreamed of being a fashion designer. Now imprisoned in Oregon, she is paid .45 cents an hour to turn out "prison blues" jeans. The designer denims are sold in high end Beverly Hills boutiques, carrying price tags upwards of $350.00. Demand for the bead encrusted jeans is so high, the company can barely keep up with the demand.

Donovan Thomas earns .21 cents per hour manufacturing high end office equipment which can be found in some of Los Angeles most plush office suites.

For the tycoons who have invested in the prison industry, it has been like finding a pot of gold. They don't have to worry about strikes or paying unemployment, health or worker's comp insurance, vacation or comp time. All of their workers are full time, and never arrive late or are absent because of family problems; moreover, if prisoners refuse to work, they are moved to disciplinary housing and lose canteen privileges. Most importantly, they lose "good time" credit that reduces their sentence.

Honda has paid inmates $2.00 per hour to do the same work they would have been required to pay auto workers $20 to $30 per hour to complete. Konica has used prisoners to repair copy machines at less that .50 cents per hour. Toys R Us has used prisoners in the past to restock shelves, and Microsoft has employed them to pack and ship software. Lockhart Technologies recently closed its Austin plant and fired some 150 workers. It realized it could relocate those jobs manufacturing circuit boards to a Wackenhut-run prison where detainees did the work for minimum wage.

Supporters of the private sector using the incarcerated in the production of various goods and services indicate that are assisting the inmates in leading more productive lives.

"The main goal of prison work programs is to provide "a positive outlet to help inmates productively use their time and energies. Another goal is to instill good work habits, including appropriate job behavior and time management, according to the Joint Venture Program of the California Department of Corrections. The program is responsible for contracting out convict labor to governments, businesses and non-profit organizations.

Experts believe that the number of persons incarcerated in the US could double in the next 10 years. There are currently over 2 million people in prison, more that any industrialized nation. Those incarcerated are disproportionately African-American and Latino. With the use of tough-on-crime mandatory sentencing in effect today, US prisons are already bursting at the seams. Proponents indicate these labor programs are necessary to fund the cost of incarceration, as well as increasing the availability of reliable labor to public and private corporations.

Critics of the programs take a totally different stance, citing the potential for abuse, as well as the impact such programs will have on the workers outside these prison facilities. They point out the fact that inmates have no voice in when they work or what they are paid, and are thus easily exploited. They voice a strong concern that increasing this trend is going to open the doors to human rights abuse if not closely monitored.

Federal law prohibits domestic commerce in prison-made goods unless inmates are paid "prevailing wages". The law doesn't apply to exports, however, so prison officials routinely market to foreign customers. Clothing manufactured in prisons in California and Oregon competes strongly with that manufactured in Latin America.

Critics concerns are not unfounded. Prison labor has it's roots in slavery.

Following reconstruction, former Confederate Democrats instituted "convict leasing." Black inmates, mostly freed slaves convicted of petty theft, were rented out to do everything from picking cotton to building railroads. In Mississippi, a huge farm, resembling a slave plantation replaced convict leasing. The infamous Parchman Farm was not closed until 1972, when inmates brought suit against the abusive conditions in federal court.


The inmates themselves have varying attitudes towards the prison labor employment programs. Two inmates in a California facility have recently filed suit against their employer and the prison, stating they were placed in solitary confinement after refusing to work in what they deemed "unsafe" working conditions.

45 year old Tony Matos, imprisoned for robbing a liquor store, sees it differently.

"When we step through the gates and into the shop, it's another world. This is a company. This isn't prison. Guards still keep watch, the capitalists still profit -- the critics and supporters still debate. But in the end, I get a skill, a few coins and a ray of hope and dignity."


So where do you stand on this important issue? Should corporations be allowed to freely access the incarcerated and hire them at minimum wage to do the jobs currently being done by outside workers, many of whom belong to unions that have negotiated wage and healthcare programs which cost the corporations upwards of $15 to $20 dollars, or more, per hour?

Or, should the use of prison labor be prohibited, or at the least, be very limited in its scope, due to the risk of it becoming a haven for "sweat shops" and human rights abuse in these government run prison facilities? Not to mention the potential of denying those people living in freedom the inability to obtain employment which pays over the minimum wage.

If corporations have full access to millions of workers at minimum wage, and have no responsibility for providing healthcare benefits, overtime or worker's compensation, how long before the good, decent and hardworking members of our "free" society are forced further into poverty themselves, unable to compete for the jobs now being given to those incarcerated?

[brassmonkey]

That's an interesting angle, homebase.. Sixpin and I had a conversation about this topic on the Backyard Fence, but, of course, it always ends in charges of racism, even though I'm only offering facts.. Also Ron Gaspard started whining because he evidently has some family members who are black, or something, but he added nothing productive to the conversation and was offended to the point that the conversation could go nowhere from there..

When the question is asked who benefits from incarceration, you're putting the cart before the horse.. To ask that question and focus only on that question you'd have to assert that the criminals did nothing wrong to get incarcerated, and that the incarceration is what it is solely for the benefits of X. In my opinion, if someone actually makes it to handcuffs, in 99% of the cases they deserve to be there and aren't completely innocent.

I'll ask the same question I asked Sixpin-if one is not willing to admit that blacks and hispanics commit an inordinate amount of crime for their small segment of representation in society, then how does one explain cities like Fitchburg, or neighborhoods like Roxbury and Dorchester, where blacks are involved in shootings on an almost weekly basis? This and the fact that there aren't, at least I've never been able to find in my exhaustive research, white-dominated neighborhoods with similar statistics that people just know to avoid at night? We can even use Winchendon as an example-majority white and very low violent crime. Very low crime, period.. But right next door in Fitchburg, the crime statistics are much worse, as is the "diversity.."

I know it's probably just circular argument because I've been able to find very few people who will just turn off all feelings and opinion and just deal in facts. And the facts are in black in white in numerous studies.

I know that it stems from socioeconomic factors and such, but that doesn't excuse us from calling it what it is and putting the spotlight on it and telling these people that we're not going to tolerate it, even if it means profiling.. I've never understood the argument against profiling.. In a city where 75% of the crime is committed by minorities, if a cop pulls over more minorities than whites in a given month, they're likely to be accused of profiling.. I don't understand that stupidity.. It's counterproductive and prevents effective policing.

[brassmonkey]

Apr 24, 2009 9:18:37 GMT -5 homebase said:

What would be a solution if this is an accurate, fair and the only reason for the criminal behavior and incarcerations of people of color?

I'm afraid there is no answer as long as looking at any race more than any other earns an officer an accusation of racial profiling.. When you aren't allowed to look closer at the people who have been identified more likely to offend without charges of racism, the sickness in that society prevents fixing the problem...

We need successful and ethical members of the black and Hispanic communities to stand up and talk to their people, as Bill Cosby did, and tell them to stop making the rest look bad.

I don't think the problem will ever change, as the culture of both of the major groups, both black and Hispanic, in their home countries is corrupt and crime ridden.. Just look at Rwanda and South Africa-it's savage. Just look at Mexico and Central America-they can't even trust their police, let alone the politicians.. It's an accepted way of life there. Crime and corruption are the norms wherever these groups are the majority. If you could name one place where this isn't true, I'm all ears. Really-I've tried to identify a stable and productive majority black or majority Hispanic country where travel is safe and doesn't carry any warnings about venturing out of the resort area.. See how big the problem is?

Now, since we're just analyzing statistics and facts, and I know they're unpleasant, I just want you to keep in mind that I'm not saying these things to denigrate these people, but merely to point out facts. The problem is far too large and widespread for us to ever fix it without stable governments in these places and the rule of law being enforced to establish morals and ethics.. I really don't get the problems in Mexico and Central America when just about every household has a statue of the Virgin Mary and claims to be so Christian.. That makes no sense to me.

The problems are too complex to really wrap your brain around, and the fix even more so, but facts are stubborn things, and minorities continue to commit violent crimes at very inordinate rates in our country, and it really needs addressed.


White people aren't given a free pass by me, either!! white-collar crime has caused massive amounts of suffering in recent years with the Enron scandal, for example, leaving thousands of people with no retirement and no pension. These crimes don't seem to leave the bad taste in peoples' mouths that violent crimes do, and I don't get that.. This type of crime causes long-lasting misery and despair, especially for people who were near retirement. They now have to continue to work, likely until they die. This is horrible when someone has had dreams and ambitions of what they wanted to do when they retire or what they wanted to leave to their children to help them live a happy life or go to college, etc.

These types of crimes will be easier to stop with company policies and oversight put in place, and I think the government is doing that.. As much as I don't want the government having its corrupt, inefficient mitts in any private institution, if private companies won't regulate themselves and protect their workers from such tragic victimization, then perhaps government intervention is the only answer.