Video Released of Grandmother Being Tased

[homebase]

Should she have been tased?



I agree she was very uncooperative and what one might call combative I might say "feisty" but really, not a real competition for what looks to be like a 30ish 6' something 200 something lb man.

I say it was excessive and brutal. After being tased, falling to the ground, the officer is yelling - "get on the ground, get on the ground" and then in complete military style, yelling repeatedly - "put your hands behind your back".

Also, I don't believe he needed to shove her in the first place. The officer stated he "pushed her back to get out of traffic" - no, they were near the line but not in traffic and he didn't explain that to her - just told her to step back in authoritative tone and then yelled and shoved her.

She was unarmed and defenseless and he didn't know anything else to do but to tase her.

In the end the officers Sargent stood by him in tasering a 72yr old great grandmother because she made what could have been a very easy routine stop a difficult one.

[brassmonkey]

Sorry, Homebase-I'm going to have to side with the police in this matter, as usual.. The stop went fine until the old lady tried to argue with the officer on the basis that she was a 72 year old woman, like that matters.. It's not like she's feeble-she's driving a brand new pickup, and she's appears to be in pretty good health.. Saying, "Take me to jail," usually doesn't end well, and she only comes to her senses after she is removed from the vehicle and then decides to sign the ticket when she realizes that the officer isn't buying the old granny card.. She then continues to make a series of bad decisions, including trying to go around the officer and get back in her vehicle after given the lawful order to turn around an put her hands behnd her back.

There is no excuse for challenging an officer in the field. You will always lose. Court is when you should challenge the officer's actions. If she would have simply signed the ticket she would have been able to go to court, and then the judge would have likely dismissed the ticket due to being the same age as the woman... Maybe she had a terrible driving record and didn't stand a chance in court of fighting another ticket-who knows, but she was a belligerent bitch in my opinion, and old doesn't give you the right to be rude to an officer..

There are a couple of old women in my family who get that diarrhea of the mouth and think that they can say whatever they think because they're old as dirt, and it annoys the hell out of me.

One sure way to not get tazed-just sign the ticket!

Also, regarding the taser, old people have brittle bones, and if she would have resisted and he forcibly tired to put her arms behind her back he could have broken her arm, and that would cost him his job! I saw this happen when I lived in Shirley-a State Trooper fought with a lady who was resisting and broke her arm. He was suspended until Internal Affairs cleared him and gave him his job back.. No cop wants that.

[homebase]

Jun 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

Sorry, Homebase-I'm going to have to side with the police in this matter, as usual.. The stop went fine until the old lady tried to argue with the officer on the basis that she was a 72 year old woman, like that matters.. It's not like she's feeble-she's driving a brand new pickup, and she's appears to be in pretty good health.. Saying, "Take me to jail," usually doesn't end well, and she only comes to her senses after she is removed from the vehicle and then decides to sign the ticket when she realizes that the officer isn't buying the old granny card.. She then continues to make a series of bad decisions, including trying to go around the officer and get back in her vehicle after given the lawful order to turn around an put her hands behnd her back.

"The officer opened the drivers door" instead of asking the driver to step out of the car. First aggressive move on the officers part. He was going to arrest her for not signing the ticket. I didn't know that refusing to sign a ticket was an arrestable offense?

I agree she made bad decisions. Is it not in police officers training to "decelerate" a situation and gain control though more moderate techniques prior to drawing their lethal and/or "non" lethal weapons? Especially with just a mouthy, agitated, unarmed, helpless old granny.

Instead of attempting to use a reasonable approach in a relatively nonthreatening situation the officer (and to me he looked scared) took an offensive, authoritarian stand, started shoving, got on the horn for back-up and threatened to taze.

Whether the 72yr old woman was "feeble" or not is irrelevant IMO a feeble 72yr old woman - a quiet one might be more dangerous than an unarmed mouthy healthy one.

Jun 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

There is no excuse for challenging an officer in the field. You will always lose. Court is when you should challenge the officer's actions. If she would have simply signed the ticket she would have been able to go to court, and then the judge would have likely dismissed the ticket due to being the same age as the woman... Maybe she had a terrible driving record and didn't stand a chance in court of fighting another ticket-who knows, but she was a belligerent bitch in my opinion, and old doesn't give you the right to be rude to an officer..

Lots of people challenge a traffic violation when they are stopped. It is explained that they can challenge the violation in court. Yes, she was "rude"... ad that to the ticket, yes "a belligerent bitch" ad it to the ticket. The dash cam clearly shows that.

The officer was the one who took the first aggressive move by physically opening the drivers door instead of requesting the driver to step out of the car. That to me would have been a threatening move. If the driver refused to get out of the car, wait for the back-up the officer so swiftly called for and repeat the request as then there may be something to worry about.

The officer clearly was not worried about any danger to himself as he freely opened the drivers door wide without taking any defensive moves.

So now if we are considered "rude" by an officers standard we can legally be tasered?

Jun 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

There are a couple of old women in my family who get that diarrhea of the mouth and think that they can say whatever they think because they're old as dirt, and it annoys the hell out of me.

You wouldn't taser them would you?! Even if you wanted to?

Jun 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

One sure way to not get tazed-just sign the ticket!

That does not defend the officers action on a legal or moral standard.

Jun 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

Also, regarding the taser, old people have brittle bones, and if she would have resisted and he forcibly tired to put her arms behind her back he could have broken her arm, and that would cost him his job! I saw this happen when I lived in Shirley-a State Trooper fought with a lady who was resisting and broke her arm. He was suspended until Internal Affairs cleared him and gave him his job back.. No cop wants that.

So now we get tasered for our own good, shoved for our own good.... what next can the law do to us for our own good?

[brassmonkey]

Jun 10, 2009 9:49:21 GMT -5 homebase said:

Jun 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

Sorry, Homebase-I'm going to have to side with the police in this matter, as usual.. The stop went fine until the old lady tried to argue with the officer on the basis that she was a 72 year old woman, like that matters.. It's not like she's feeble-she's driving a brand new pickup, and she's appears to be in pretty good health.. Saying, "Take me to jail," usually doesn't end well, and she only comes to her senses after she is removed from the vehicle and then decides to sign the ticket when she realizes that the officer isn't buying the old granny card.. She then continues to make a series of bad decisions, including trying to go around the officer and get back in her vehicle after given the lawful order to turn around an put her hands behnd her back.

"The officer opened the drivers door" instead of asking the driver to step out of the car. First aggressive move on the officers part. He was going to arrest her for not signing the ticket. I didn't know that refusing to sign a ticket was an arrestable offense?

I agree she made bad decisions. Is it not in police officers training to "decelerate" a situation and gain control though more moderate techniques prior to drawing their lethal and/or "non" lethal weapons? Especially with just a mouthy, agitated, unarmed, helpless old granny.

Instead of attempting to use a reasonable approach in a relatively nonthreatening situation the officer (and to me he looked scared) took an offensive, authoritarian stand, started shoving, got on the horn for back-up and threatened to taze.

Whether the 72yr old woman was "feeble" or not is irrelevant IMO a feeble 72yr old woman - a quiet one might be more dangerous than an unarmed mouthy healthy one.



Lots of people challenge a traffic violation when they are stopped. It is explained that they can challenge the violation in court. Yes, she was "rude"... ad that to the ticket, yes "a belligerent bitch" ad it to the ticket. The dash cam clearly shows that.

The officer was the one who took the first aggressive move by physically opening the drivers door instead of requesting the driver to step out of the car. That to me would have been a threatening move. If the driver refused to get out of the car, wait for the back-up the officer so swiftly called for and repeat the request as then there may be something to worry about.

The officer clearly was not worried about any danger to himself as he freely opened the drivers door wide without taking any defensive moves.

So now if we are considered "rude" by an officers standard we can legally be tasered?



You wouldn't taser them would you?! Even if you wanted to?



That does not defend the officers action on a legal or moral standard.

Jun 10, 2009 7:37:43 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

Also, regarding the taser, old people have brittle bones, and if she would have resisted and he forcibly tired to put her arms behind her back he could have broken her arm, and that would cost him his job! I saw this happen when I lived in Shirley-a State Trooper fought with a lady who was resisting and broke her arm. He was suspended until Internal Affairs cleared him and gave him his job back.. No cop wants that.

So now we get tasered for our own good, shoved for our own good.... what next can the law do to us for our own good?

Wow, Homebase, did we have an unpleasant experience with the law in our youth, or something? ;D

The reason the officer did what he did is that they are trained to do that. They are trained that emotion has no business in the field, and you go by the book.

The first aggressive move was by the woman saying, "Take me to jail!" At that point there was only one way for the stop to go. Even if some think the officer should have tried to talk her into just signing the ticket-she didn't know what kind of day the officer had, and maybe he just wasn't in the mood for some mouthy granny refusing to allow him to simply do his job.

The reason he barked the commands and repeated the commands is that they're also trained to do this.. After going to school for Criminal Justice, I know this one first hand. You are trained to dictate your orders to the perpetrator loudly and clearly (military-like) and repeatedly so that there is not a chance in hell they they can go to court and say that they didn't hear your or understand you. If you watch COPS, you'll hear the cops repeatedly say, "Stop resisting! Stop resisting! Stop resisting," as they are struggling with the perp on the ground with three guys on his back. It will look to the lay person like there's no way he's resisting, but people can keep their hands underneath them very strongly, and it's difficult to get them out. As long as they're telling him to stop resisting and they can't get his hands behind his back and handcuffed, the fight is justified.

I just think that the lady in this video was a jerk and escalated the situation by refusing to sign the ticket. She broke the law and didn't accept the consequences.

Officers are trained to de-escalate the situation, but once the decision has been made to arrest the woman, that's the officer's goal, and he's required to use every non-lethal means at his disposal before going hands-on. And, yes, the taser is considered non-lethal, even though people have died after being tazed. The taser is very effective at forcing compliance. Now if he would have jumped on her back with his knee on the back of her neck as I've seen done to violent criminals on COPS, then I'd have a serious problem with the video, but the woman was told repeatedly to do what the officer told her, and she simply thought she didn't have to listen to him.. Wrong, even at 72.

[homebase]

Jun 10, 2009 11:41:15 GMT -5 brassmonkey said:

Jun 10, 2009 9:49:21 GMT -5 homebase said:

"The officer opened the drivers door" instead of asking the driver to step out of the car. First aggressive move on the officers part. He was going to arrest her for not signing the ticket. I didn't know that refusing to sign a ticket was an arrestable offense?

I agree she made bad decisions. Is it not in police officers training to "decelerate" a situation and gain control though more moderate techniques prior to drawing their lethal and/or "non" lethal weapons? Especially with just a mouthy, agitated, unarmed, helpless old granny.

Instead of attempting to use a reasonable approach in a relatively nonthreatening situation the officer (and to me he looked scared) took an offensive, authoritarian stand, started shoving, got on the horn for back-up and threatened to taze.

Whether the 72yr old woman was "feeble" or not is irrelevant IMO a feeble 72yr old woman - a quiet one might be more dangerous than an unarmed mouthy healthy one.



Lots of people challenge a traffic violation when they are stopped. It is explained that they can challenge the violation in court. Yes, she was "rude"... ad that to the ticket, yes "a belligerent bitch" ad it to the ticket. The dash cam clearly shows that.

The officer was the one who took the first aggressive move by physically opening the drivers door instead of requesting the driver to step out of the car. That to me would have been a threatening move. If the driver refused to get out of the car, wait for the back-up the officer so swiftly called for and repeat the request as then there may be something to worry about.

The officer clearly was not worried about any danger to himself as he freely opened the drivers door wide without taking any defensive moves.

So now if we are considered "rude" by an officers standard we can legally be tasered?



You wouldn't taser them would you?! Even if you wanted to?



That does not defend the officers action on a legal or moral standard.



So now we get tasered for our own good, shoved for our own good.... what next can the law do to us for our own good?

Wow, Homebase, did we have an unpleasant experience with the law in our youth, or something? ;D

Nope. However, I was with a group where everyone did get arrested and I was the only one that wasn't. 2am after the Cinema Lounge closed in Leominster. Waaaay before your time. Waited in an all night Duncan Donuts for the LOOSERS to get released.

My husband made mince meat out of me when I finally got home the next morning around 9am... I didn't forget

The reason the officer did what he did is that they are trained to do that. They are trained that emotion has no business in the field, and you go by the book.

So, screaming - "get on the ground, get on the ground" as she is falling to the ground... that makes sense, but of course it is in the "book".

The first aggressive move was by the woman saying, "Take me to jail!" At that point there was only one way for the stop to go. Even if some think the officer should have tried to talk her into just signing the ticket-she didn't know what kind of day the officer had, and maybe he just wasn't in the mood for some mouthy granny refusing to allow him to simply do his job.

The Officer lost his cool IMO. Not good when you carry a badge, a gun and tazer. I don't care what kind of day he had or what kind of mood he was in.

The reason he barked the commands and repeated the commands is that they're also trained to do this.. After going to school for Criminal Justice, I know this one first hand. You are trained to dictate your orders to the perpetrator loudly and clearly (military-like) and repeatedly so that there is not a chance in hell they they can go to court and say that they didn't hear your or understand you. If you watch COPS, you'll hear the cops repeatedly say, "Stop resisting! Stop resisting! Stop resisting," as they are struggling with the perp on the ground with three guys on his back. It will look to the lay person like there's no way he's resisting, but people can keep their hands underneath them very strongly, and it's difficult to get them out. As long as they're telling him to stop resisting and they can't get his hands behind his back and handcuffed, the fight is justified.

Is this after they're tazed? This officer was not dealing with a drugged out wacked out, crazed male, gang member in early morning hours. This officer is getting his stripes with a mouthy, defenseless great grandmother. LOL

I just think that the lady in this video was a jerk and escalated the situation by refusing to sign the ticket. She broke the law and didn't accept the consequences.

Is it against the law to refuse to sign a traffic violation? If it is, I didn't know that.

Officers are trained to de-escalate the situation, but once the decision has been made to arrest the woman, that's the officer's goal, and he's required to use every non-lethal means at his disposal before going hands-on. And, yes, the taser is considered non-lethal, even though people have died after being tazed. The taser is very effective at forcing compliance. Now if he would have jumped on her back with his knee on the back of her neck as I've seen done to violent criminals on COPS, then I'd have a serious problem with the video, but the woman was told repeatedly to do what the officer told her, and she simply thought she didn't have to listen to him.. Wrong, even at 72.

Yes, she was wrong. Officers meet up with "wrong" every day. I still say tasering her was wrong, even more - excessive and brutal.

It will be interesting what the court says. It seems she has obtained an attorney.

I will watch to see if I can find follow-up.

[brassmonkey]

Are you getting mouthy with me? You're lucky I don't taze your ass!

BTW, I don't like the look your avatar is giving me.. He might be next!

I don't know if it it illegal to refuse to sign a traffic ticket, and I would imagine it would vary from state to state..

[homebase]

<----- Avatar changed.

Don't taze be bro!